4th Edition Rulings and Clarifications - Page 2
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Thread: 4th Edition Rulings and Clarifications

  1. #11

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    It occupies the space and uses the Medium keyword for purposes of who it can attack which is what it's for. If it were Large instead of Medium then that's a hell of a lot more bad guys it could attack at the start of their turns. If it were meant to be an obstacle then it would say it in the description. It's an attack spell and a damn good one.
    I think it's ambiguous and the erratta does nothing to solve that.They could have solved all of this just by making obstacle a keyword. They could have spelled it out in the description. They didn't. But I also think my Wall of Fire/ Wall of Ice argument cinches it, for me anyway.
    I'm still waiting for you to prove it to me. You've been making some pretty crazy arguments , even going so far as to say a spell effect should have creature properties and citing forum descussions but providing no links or quotes. I want it in black and white, no room to quibble, there it is, let's move on. I havn't seen it yet.

    Until then I'm going with not an obstacle.

  2. #12

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    Damn that was quick, I'm actually shocked at how fast the response to that was. The word from customer service is:
    Code:
    sean,
    
    Hello. The conjuration is considered a solid thing, so it can not move
    through occupied squares, whether it be enemy or ally, and other things
    can't move through its square, whether they be ally or enemy.
    
    Please write us back if you require any further assistance.
    
    We would appreciate your feedback on the service we are providing you.
    Please click here to fill out a short questionnaire.
    
    To login to your account, or update your question please click here.
    
    Evan T.
    Online Response Crew
    Wizards of the Coast
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    So, I was right except being able to move it though allies, but there it is in black and white from the guys at the top.
    Last edited by Mindlord; 12-09-2008 at 03:25 PM. Reason: code formatting

  3. #13

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    So it is. I still say it's BROKEN, but I'll concede.

  4. #14

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    Don't worry, it will seem less and less broken as the encounters get tougher. Eventually it won't be worth using at all. Just to be replaced by something more broken and inexplicable.

    In the future instead of all the bickering and wasting all the time trying to argue our points I suggest just going to Customer Service and see what they have to say first. Since the response time is reasonable.

    Huge and bigger creatures or tiny creatures can just move right over/past/around the medium sized conjurations though, according to the movement rules.

  5. #15

  6. #16

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    A couple of more things we've been doing wrong.

    First, Charging. We've been treating it as making a move action (with some restrictions) followed by a basic melee as a Standard Action for which you get a +1 bonus to hit, but it's so much better than that.
    Charge is a Standard Action in which you get to move and make a bsic melee attack. That's right, you can Charge an opponent and still have a Move and a Minor action to work with. If you choose, you can essentially make a double move and still get a basic melee attack (with a +1 to hit). Pretty cool. The only downside is, Charging ends your turn, so no more having Nadaar Charge and then use his Breath Weapon. Ah well.
    Someone on the forum seems to think he could still do it with an Action Point, but I say no. Ends your Turn means Ends your Turn. No Action Points.

    Second, Crits. We may have already caught this, but when Kiran makes a Crit with his Sneak Attack, I think I've been giiving him Max Damage for his weapon, but making him roll for the Sneak Attack/Backstabber. That's wrong. It all Maxes out. The only damage you roll for is Damage that triggers on a Crit, like that from a magical weapon. So, by my calculations, when Kirun Crits on a sneak attack with his new sword, he does 6 (Weapon damage)+ 3 (Proficiency bonus) +4 (Ability Mod) +1 (Magic Bonus) + 16 (Sneak Attack/Backstabber) + 1d6 (Crit Bonus) for a Minimum of 31 and a Maximum of 36.
    Yikes.

    One more thing that hasn't been an issue yet but is sure to be soon is Daily Powers from items. You can only use one per extended rest BUT each milestone gives you another use of a different item.

    Example: Checkmate has a Sword with a daily Power and Boots with a Daily Power. He can only use one, unless he hits a milestone. Then he can use the DP's from both items, assuming he hasn't already used one. If he has a third item with a DP and somehow hits a second milestone, he gains the use of the third items DP as well.

    Good to know.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shootin Bricks View Post
    A couple of more things we've been doing wrong.
    Someone on the forum seems to think he could still do it with an Action Point, but I say no. Ends your Turn means Ends your Turn. No Action Points.
    PHB pg288
    Code:
    No Further Actions: After you resolve a charge 
    attack, you can’t take any further actions this turn, 
    unless you spend an action point to take an extra 
    action.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shootin Bricks View Post
    UH-OH. Something else we've been doing wrong.
    (Double Move Rules)
    What this means is, no more "I shift and move so I don't provoke an Opportunity Attack". Ah, well. It was nice while it lasted. The good news is, it provides a way to shift in rough terrain.
    I was thinking about this earlier, and it struck me that the rules aren't saying that you can't use one move action to shift, and then trade in a standard action to move. It is describing the special conditions that occur when you do take the same move action type twice in the same turn.

    It's the whole "If you take the same move action twice in a row—two walks, two runs, two shifts, two crawls—you’re taking a double move."

    The extra conditions allow you to do things that you couldn't do without them, such as shift 1 square into a square occupied by an ally, end the move, and then take another move action to shift again. Without the Double Move conditions it would normally be illegal to end your first move in the same square as your ally.

    This condition
    Code:
    Same Move Action: To double move, you have to 
    take the same move action twice in a row on the 
    same turn.
    Is only describing the conditions necessary to take advantage of the extra features that a double move offers.
    So, no you can't shift into a square occupied by an ally and then move at normal speed, but you can shift into an unoccupied square and then move normally without breaking the rules.

  9. #19

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    Yes, that's right. This makes it even more clear, when you read it carefully:
    Double Move
    On your turn, you can move twice if you take a move
    action instead of a standard action. If you take the
    same move action twice in a row—two walks, two runs,
    two shifts, two crawls—you’re taking a double move.
    On that note, you can use a double move to shift into an Allies square and then shift again to an unoccupied square. Interesting.

  10. #20

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    What's even more interesting is because of that, you could leave one square threatened by a monster for another square threatened by a monster without giving either monster an opportunity attack because you are shifting both times.

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